The present disclosure relates generally to digital watermarking. One claim recites an apparatus including: an input for receiving imagery or video; and an electronic processor for processing received imagery or video. The electronic processor is programmed for detecting first digital watermarking and second digital watermark from the imagery or video, in which the first digital watermarking utilizes a relationship between at least a first color space and a second color space. Another claim recites an apparatus including: an input for receiving imagery or video; and an electronic processor for processing received imagery or video. The electronic processor is programmed for embedding first digital watermarking and second digital watermark in the imagery or video, in which the first digital watermarking comprises a geometrically linear assignment of pixels, while the second digital watermarking comprises a geometrically random assignment of pixels. Of course other claims and combinations are provided too.